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Talk:Wizard's Institute of Technocery
Both Kreesha and Shakra are specifically called wizards -- and their ability to create wizard's staffs seems to confirm this. Given that Erasmus defines a wizard as a graduate of WIT, one can guess that they are graduates as well -- unless that rule only applies to human wizards. This could be the case, however, because without Kreesha or Shakra as members, the entire membership of WIT that we see is human. Crayauchtin 20:22, June 15, 2012 (UTC) :Technically, Erana and Zara (who are members) were half-Faerie Folk. Also point of note, those were just the sponsors you see in the halls. Some of the greatest members, but not every member. The game does make note that there were many other hallways with many other paintings of wizards. These too were probably the greatest of the wizards. In time the Hero probably would have gotten his own painting. :Not all wizards are necessarily members of WIT, as I highly doubt Demon Wizard was. :Also QFG5 states that Fenrus is a member, and a powerful wizard in his own right, and he's hardly 'human'.Baggins 20:28, June 15, 2012 (UTC) :::Oh, those are very good points and I had forgotten that they said that about Fenrus! I guess he gets his own line in the membership (but Damiano doesn't! :P) Yeah, I'm not going to put the Demon Wizard as a member, but it's interesting to note the lack of consistency in their calling him that.... I suppose it opens the possibility, but then he's also from another dimension and not technically a wizard from Gloriana, so perhaps whatever world the demons come from has different rules. Crayauchtin 20:50, June 15, 2012 (UTC) :The Demon Wizard was originally just called the "the wizard" and he is described that he was also a "demon" in QFG2! Come to think of it I think the Kobold is also described to be a 'wizard'.Baggins 20:51, June 15, 2012 (UTC) :::Hrm, that might explain how the kobold knew the reversal spell... Guess we could say there's a slim chance both are members of WIT, but probably not. I suspect that if becoming a vampire is enough to get you thrown out, being a demon is probably frowned upon as well. Crayauchtin 21:03, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::Not sure its so much 'becoming a vampire" but rather dabbling with dark magics, and being told not to too many times...Baggins 21:10, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::Also I get the impression that many of the females of Tarna are Wizards. That's why they have a position 'The Wizard' on their Council of Judgement even. Also of note, I think Kreesha mainly calls herself a 'Sorceress', I think, more than she calls herself 'wizard'. Also I think some of the leopard people also described as 'wizards' in the game but I seriously doubt they are all members of WIT as well.Baggins 21:40, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::::As reclusive as they are, I also doubt the Leopardmen are members of WIT. It's possible here's a number of wizards in the Tarna, but Kreesha's house is the only place in Tarna that's noted as being where magic is allowed to be practiced. If she *is* representing a population of Tarna, it's probably no bigger than a coven just because how many people can really fit into that house, right? :P I'm not sure if Kreesha actually speaks on behalf of a group of people, in the times we see her speak she tends to talk about information she's gathered using magic, so it's a little vague there as well. ::::I think we've learned here that the term wizard isn't as specific as Erasmus would have us believe in QfG1! I'm going to leave Shakra and Kreesha as presumed members all the same (it *does* make sense -- and actually, in QfG3 don't they mention that their son is in another land becoming a wizard? I could be making that up though...). I'm also curious -- what do we know of Keapon Laffin's wizarding status? I imagine they'd have given us a picture of him in QfG2 if he was a member, but I can't imagine why he wouldn't be one... and if Shakra is a member, that makes Keapon the only magic shop owner in the entire series who *isn't*. :\ Crayauchtin 22:41, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::I think Keapon is one of the characters that can lead you to where the WIT entrance is located, so he knows of its existence. Even if he is a member, and you don't see him on the screen witht he paintings, the game is specific that there are alot more paintings you passed through, that can't be seen in the one scene they show in WIT. ::Actually 'magic' is also used within the temple by the goddess there! ::Also Kreesha is clear that you can use magic in her house, I'd assume any other magic users in Tarna society practice magic in their houses as well... It's just not allowed in the streets. ::QFG3 states that Shakra travelled to Silmaria to 'become a wizard', and its specific that he's the first 'male' to be a wizard, which suggests that woman are more likely to be wizards/magic users/sorceresses in their society. ::Also keep in mind that you aren't even allowed into the Liontaur section of the city to see what goes on there! Humans aren't allowed. ::Kreesha is also the only liontaur who chooses to live in the 'western' section of the city among the humans. ::Also one of the rules of tarna is "Though shalt not use magic upon the streets of Tarna." It doesn't say anything about using magic inside of ones indoor shops and homes however. Even the apothecary practices some magic as well! In the creation of its 'dispel potions' for exsample!Baggins 23:12, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::::I've always been under the impression that Keapon is just a magic user -- perhaps he failed his initiation? Or just didn't get along with the oh-so-serious wizards and opted not to bother? I guess there's no real evidence either way, though iirc he's not real flattering when he talks about them. ::::I don't think the goddess is really too concerned with the laws of Liontaurs (she also lets you in, even though you're human and that's against the law). Cause, y'know, how she's a goddess. But you're right, technically she broke the law! :P ::::The line I was thinking specified Kreesha's house as the only place to practice magic actually doesn't -- it just says "Council of Judgment, my home is in the magic plane, and therefore exempt from this ruling." I can't imagine the Council would be happy if all the wizard's took this stance, but it's possible there's more than one place where magic is allowed but they must all be specially identified -- probably by the eye over the door, as Kreesha's home has. ::::Is it specified that Shapeir is the only entrance to WIT? Is it possible there's one in Silmaria as well? It being all extra-planar, technically there's no reason it only has one entrance. ::::...I wonder how the Coles would feel if I poked at them with all these questions. They do have contact info up on their Transolar web site, don't they? Crayauchtin 23:56, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::I did come across where Kreesha does state that she is 'the only magic user in tarna'. Of course this kinda ignores the other types of magic such as apothecary, and paladin magic! Interesting enough, it doesn't seem Kreesha even considers herself a wizard. At least not in the traditional capital W sense, she's makes a distinction that her son is becoming "a Wizard", but she calls her self a 'user of magic' and she is generally described as a 'magician'. The only place she is even remotely called a wizard, is with the Council of Judgement title, but that's largely ceremonial. It may be that they only allow one female "magic user" in the city at a time...Baggins 00:02, June 16, 2012 (UTC) ::You mean 'oh-so+serious" wizards like Erasmus and Fenrus? Actually there quire a few 'magic users' in QFG2. The apothecary, and even the seer all practice magic, and each are linked to and knowledgeable about different elements. ::Yes, its pretty clear there are 'more than one entrance to Wit", although apparently the entrance in Shapeir is the main entrance, and is apparently the one where new enlistees must enter the institute from! At least according to characters in the first two games :p :::"(she also lets you in, even though you're human and that's against the law). " ::Wrong, she lives in the western human side of town. Humans can come and go on that side as they please. That's why she has an open shop there! It's a magic shop and her home (as stated when you look at the sign and door)! She is also very clear about this distincdtion when you question her about magic for the first time! ::The anti-magic law is very specific to the 'streets of Tarna' and others state in 'public'. BTW, as a magic user you can practice magic in your room in the INN without any penalty! It's not in public. ::This is interesting, apparently its possible to go into QFG3 as either a wizard or a magic-user! If I'm reading through the files correctly. It lists five classes; Fighter, Magic User, Wizard, Paladin, and Thief there. So I guess it acknowledges if you beat the previous game without going through WIT! It's possible to create the so-called 'wizard's staff' without being a 'wizard'!Baggins 00:05, June 16, 2012 (UTC) ::::Actually, it makes a lot of sense that she would be a magic user if you don't need to be a Wizard. I think I'm going to remove her from the list of members (since you're right, the only Wizard reference I can find to her either is her title in the Council) and just leave Shakra -- it's pretty clear from the references we've found today that he's been through WIT. ::::I wouldn't be too surprised if the Wizard is just there because magic is such a strong force in Gloriana and the Liontaurs probably don't want to upset any kind of balance or anything. She might not be representing any people (although she seems to have unofficially taken up representing the human population of the city.) ::::The goddess Sekhmet does not live in the human side of town and it is illegal for humans to enter her temple. Hence why I mentioned that when I was talking about how the goddess isn't too concerned with the laws of Tarna. :P ::::You can also practice magic in the guest hut of the Simbani Village even though letting the Simbani know you practice magic would mean they kill you. Immediately. Our fair Hero isn't always the most law-abiding person. I'm sure a lot of laws only don't apply in private because who's gonna catch you, right? Crayauchtin 02:15, June 16, 2012 (UTC) ::Pretty sure 'streets of tarna' means streets of tarna. The law is specific. It doesn't say "magic is banned in all places in tarna". Otherwise they'd probably ban the entrance to the magic store, and the store itself as well! The magic store is still physically in tarna. It's not like the WIT which actually is in another plane. But in her description she's probalby talking about some kind of mystical wards and protections that protect from magic from escaping her building, and causing havoc outside of her lab. ::It's not like breakign the 'thief' laws and stealing, where it leads to your losing the ability to buy or sell, or even getting food. Also Kreesha explains that hte only reason that magic isn't allowed in 'public' is because the danger of a miscast injuring another citizen by accident. That's why she says to practice your magic her lab when she is in the back room. You are also 'blocked' from casting spells when others are in her lab, to avoid the danger of 'hurting another' citizen. ::Infact Kreesha goes as far to publically advertise her magic services to the public at the Welcome Inn! "If you have need of Magic. I'll shall be honored to serve you. Kreesha." Which shows that the people of Tarna are actually pretty open about magic, in comparison to the Simbani who don't want magic at all. ::Salim also sells "Mana Pills" which as he states is used to refill your mana, your internal magic. Which is another example that 'magic' is not completely 'against the law', just its use in public where it might hurt others.Baggins 03:08, June 16, 2012 (UTC) :::BTW, I just reread the High Priestess comments and Sekhmet's and it doesn't look like its 'illegal' for humans to enter the temple anymore than it is illegal for them to enter the palace (they are both in the same part of the city, the central pyramid, which is part of the public region of the city). Infact it looks more like High Priestess just happens to be a bigot towards humans. Sekhmet states specifically that the priestess is only supposed to speak her words, not presume her own thoughts about how the temple should be run. The guide explains further that its in the public region of the city, so sightseeres can at least get a glimpse inside. Though technically humans are not allowed inside (even if apparently the the liontaur rules don't exactly match up with what Sekhmet actually intends the temple to represent).Baggins 03:35, June 16, 2012 (UTC) ::Turns out that Fenrus studied at Mythcatonic U, which appears to be a competing organization to WIT that also trains and bestows the status of Wizard. So I guess there is more than one place where a person can become a Wizard. ::Also interesting back to Salim... In QFG5, it is Shakra that makes Mana Pills and Mana Potions in that game as according to Shakra it requires magic to make them, LOL.-Baggins 17:06, June 19, 2012 (UTC)